Look, I’ve only been a Linux user for a couple of years, but if there’s one thing I’ve learned, it’s that we’re not afraid to tinker. Most of us came from Windows or macOS at some point, ditching the mainstream for better control, privacy, or just to escape the corporate BS. We’re the people who choose the harder path when we think it’s worth it.
Which is why I find it so damn interesting that atomic distros haven’t caught on more. The landscape is incredibly diverse now - from gaming-focused Bazzite to the purely functional philosophy of Guix System. These distros couldn’t be more different in their approaches, but they all share this core atomic DNA.
These systems offer some seriously compelling stuff - updates that either work 100% or roll back automatically, no more “oops I bricked my system” moments, better security through immutability, and way fewer update headaches.
So what gives? Why aren’t more of us jumping on board? From my conversations and personal experience, I think it boils down to a few things:
Our current setups already work fine. Let’s be honest - when you’ve spent years perfecting your Arch or Debian setup, the thought of learning a whole new paradigm feels exhausting. Why fix what isn’t broken, right?
The learning curve seems steep. Yes, you can do pretty much everything on atomic distros that you can on traditional ones, but the how is different. Instead of apt install whatever and editing config files directly, you’re suddenly dealing with containers, layering, or declarative configs. It’s not necessarily harder, just… different.
The docs can be sparse. Traditional distros have decades of guides, forum posts, and StackExchange answers. Atomic systems? Not nearly as much. When something breaks at 2am, knowing there’s a million Google results for your error message is comforting.
I’ve been thinking about this because Linux has overcome similar hurdles before. Remember when gaming on Linux was basically impossible? Now we have the Steam Deck running an immutable SteamOS (of all things!) and my non-Linux friends are buying them without even realizing they’re using Linux. It just works.
So I’m genuinely curious - what’s keeping YOU from switching to an atomic distro? Is it specific software you need? Concerns about customization? Just can’t be bothered to learn new tricks?
Your answers might actually help developers focus on the right pain points. The atomic approach makes so much sense on paper that I’m convinced it’s the future - we just need to figure out what’s stopping people from making the jump today.
So what would it actually take to get you to switch? I’m all ears.
I wonder if OP and about 3/4 of the people in here understand the difference between atomic and immutable.
Back in the day when embedded devices are running Linux kernel 2.6, the kernel is gzipped and saved to an SPI flash, then extracted to RAM and run from there.
Does that sound immutable enough to you?
The decision on this design wasn’t for an immutable system, but just that flash chips were expensive. Immutability was an accidental achievement.
Actually we developers dreamed everyday we can directly modify the operating system ad hoc, not needing to go through the compile-flash-boot agonising process just to debug a config file.
You see, my point is, when a system is in good hands, it just does not break. End of story.
Maybe the next time before you guys press Enter after
pacman -Syyu(not exclusively saying your distro is bad, Arch pals, sorry), think about the risk and recovery plan. If you are just an end user expecting 100% uptime and rarely contributing (reporting bugs at least), consider switch to a more stable distro (I heard Debian is good), and ask yourself if you want an immutable distro, or do you just want a super stable system.An atomic distro is one which is in my understanding, has a basis in libostree, right? I’m familiar with the Fedora/RedHat versions but not any others.
Immutable distributions, for me to are wonderful when they are sparse. I don’t want anything on my OS which I don’t use at least once on a while.
If I install Fedora (RPM) Workstation to a large extent I can remove programs that I don’t want. Whereas SilverBlue (libostree), I’m stuck with whatever the maintainers template (is there a blocking mechanism?).
However, with sparse Fedora-IoT, I can’t break it - to a large extent - and it doesn’t have anything I don’t want.
I always install minimal versions of OSs, from Fedora (Everything iso), to Debian (debootstrap) to ArchLinux to Exherbo to Talos, just keep them cleaner longer. Then I fix them until they break!
I think they’re ideal for those starting out in Linux because they are not ready to break; not saying that they’re not for others too.
There’s enough documentation, at least for Fedora atomic distros, to make your own custom spin.
I’m not switching for any desktop, unless the basic OS is minimal; but have switched for Raspberry Pi OS to Fedora IoT (atomic distro), at least temporarily.
My main reason is one you listed. My setup works well for me; I enjoy it; and I don’t feel the need to fix what ain’t broke (when the “fix” likely involves breaking a lot of things I need to fix, and generally a lot of time and effort). Plus, from what I can tell, if you are particular about parts of your system, the immutable distros on offer are not diverse enough to cater to you—eg can I use my preferred init system, runit? All the immutable distros I know are systemd (which I am not a big hater of, but I like and am accustomed to runit already).
Edit: saw what you said at the end about what it would take for me to switch. It would be if I had a real use case for it, eg I regularly had problems that an immutable distro would solve, or I could see a way that an immutable distro would drastically improve my workflow.
- I don’t really want to use Containerized packaging (flatpak,appimage)
- They don’t offer many desktop envoirments (typo sorry)
- I like my current distro
I really like Debian stable, and have for a very long time. I’m not too fearful of fucking up the system because Debian stable is more stable than most anvils, and I have timeshift installed with regular backups configured which get stored locally and to a RAID 5 array on my NAS system (which is also running Debian). Anything super duper important I also put onto a cloud host I have in Switzerland.
If I want to do something insane to the system, which is rare, then I test it extensively in virtualization first until I am comfortable enough to do it on my actual system, take backups, and then do it.
I am working to make my backup/disaster recovery solution even better, but as it stands I could blow my PC up with a stick of dynamite and have a working system running a day later with access to all of my stuff as it was this morning so long as a store that sells system hardware is open locally. If it were a disk failure, or something in software, It would take less than a day to recover.
So what keeps me from switching is that I really do not see a need to, and I like my OS.
Similar for me. Debian works.
And I’m just too busy with other things to bother trying different distros. I want my computer to work with a minimum of fuss.
That said Bazzite does sound interesting and might go on my gaming system. Debian stable isn’t the best choice for that. Lol
Yea I like to play around with some different distros in virtualization occasionally to see what’s up, but I have found Debian just always meets my needs 98% of the way in addition to basically never breaking.
I know Bazzite is built specifically for gaming, but I can play pretty much everything I want on Debian using my Nvidia card and Proton. The Nvidia drivers were a lot easier to install than I think a lot of people make them out to be, but I might just be lucky with my hardware or something. Armored Core VI runs great for example, and I’m even using Gnome, not KDE.
In my experience I’m kind of hard pressed to see the benefit of Bazzite over Debian when it comes to gaming actually, but I don’t know a tonne about Bazzite so I’ll digress.
I struggled getting Zwift (online cycling game) running on Debian, and the issue turned out to be that WINE on Debian is a major version behind.
I did get it working, and everything else works (retro game emulators), but it’s like, huh maybe that wasn’t the best choice.
ive been meaning to even try another distro for a while, regardless of being immutable or not.
but my machine works just fine how it is. why change it?
You just said it yourself. I do like to tinker. I can install a distro in 15 minutes. I can fix my system. I do make backups. Why would I need or want an atomic distro again?
oops I bricked my system
I honestly can’t think of a single time I’ve done this in the 20 years I’ve been using linux.
what’s keeping YOU from switching to an atomic distro
I dunno, it just seems like the latest fad. Debian/Arch work just fine.
The whole “I bricked my system” thing is just ridiculous.
It actually happened to me today on Arch.
I updated the system, including the kernel, everything went smoothly with no errors or warnings, I rebooted, and it said the ZSTD image created by mkinitcpio was corrupt and it failed to boot.
I booted the arch install iso, chrooted into my installation and reinstalled the linux package, rebooted, and it worked again.
I have no explanation, this is on a perfectly working laptop with a high end SSD, no errors in memtest, not overclocked, and I’ve been using this Arch install for over a year.
The chances of the package being corrupt when I downloaded it and the hash still being correct are astronomically low, the chances of a cosmic ray hitting the RAM at just the right time are probably just as low, the fact that mkinitcpio doesn’t verify the images that it creates is shocking, the whole thing would have been avoided on an immutable distro with A/B partitions.
You could have booted the old kernel in Grub.
idk I’ve gotten mine into a state i couldnt fix more times than I can count. Immuteable distros have been a game changer for me and if I’m being honest I think they’re going to be the biggest thing for mainstream adoption in Linux’s entire history.
I think “atomic” means “a bunch of actions grouped together as one action”, so that the system won’t end up in a state where some required actions are missing and becomes unusable. But it doesn’t mean it’s unto itself making a system unbreakable: If your system starts in a state of malfunctioning, then it also takes a series of actions to fix it, be it atomic or not.
Most Linux distributions start in the state of functioning after installation.
Nothing good ever comes from ‘mainstream adoption’ though.
I’m curious what you’re doing to your system that bricks it so often that would be considered a risk for a normal every-day normie user?
Upvoting but please stop using the term “bricking” this way. Bricking is permanent and there is no recovery. You have turned your device into a useless brick.
Ohh well go up a half a percent point boys. If we don’t include the steam deck.
I agree. I have become more amenable to things like Flatpak or Podman/Docker to keep the base system from being cluttered up with weird dependencies, but for the most part it doesn’t seem like there’s a huge upside to going full atomic if you’re already comfortable.
I love flatpak lol. something like debian + flatpak is win-win imo
Near as I can tell they’re primarily aimed at desktop users who want to treat their computer like a smartphone.
I do software development and need a ton of tools installed that aren’t just “flatpaks”. IntelliJ, Pycharm, sdkman, pyenv, Oracle libraries and binaries, databases, etc. The last time I tried this I ran into a bunch of issues. And for what gain? Basically zero.
Lack of interest. It doesn’t solve any problems that I have.
But just think about all the problems you’re not having that you could be solving!
what’s keeping YOU from switching to an atomic distro?
I tried switching to VanillaOS a month ago. I had a hell of a time getting my niche use-case to work, consisting of using Syncthing to sync my Obsidian notes to a server via Tailscale. Apparently, I had to create a custom VanillaOS image just to install Tailscale? Also, I couldn’t get
wl-copyto work. Also, docs were out of date and missing.See notes: https://lemmy.today/post/25622342/14849341
I like Arch because I have control over the system. At least with VanillaOS (not sure about other immutable distros), it seems like I’m supposed to give up control or fight with the system to let me do what I want.
I actually have accidentally bricked my Linux system in the past, but that was a long time ago and I learned from the experience. So it’s not a problem I currently have.
I still haven’t gotten to doing this, but actually, I was thinking the locked down nature of VanillaOS might be fine for my parents. They currently only use their Mac for browsing the web and not much else. Seems like VanillaOS might be a good fit for users that don’t have very demanding computing needs.
Doesn’t solve any problem I have. Why switch?
Also, interesting concept the immutable one, but just… Why?
For me it’s too much time investment, I don’t want to tinker with my OS. The fact that it’s so common to screw up a system that atomic distros are becoming much more popular is a good example, I want an OS that doesn’t get screwed up in the first place.
Sorta-mostly agree. I’m not afraid to tinker, but I don’t really care to either. To some extent the pitch for immutable distros are that you won’t ruin everything if you fiddle with them. The Linux I installed years ago didn’t require fiddling, and hopefully doesn’t need a lot of protection from me anyway. If I was setting up a new machine today I might try an immutable distro, but I’m not going to replace a perfectly cromulent install I already have unless there’s a problem.
Because it took me a few years to create my perfect Fedora workstation installation.
If one days it becomes bricked, I’d probably switch to an immitable distribution, but I’m sticking with workstation as long as it works.
Also there is no real upside to switching for me.
